Spider 1840 - 1860 Handle Repair or Not

[Jeffrey R.]

It is not always the big picture that tells you a story, it could be the little picture that is the story by it's self.

I needed a fix for my iron addiction so I went on a hunt. But I am at a cross roads is it a Repair or just Unique way of attaching the handle with extra support during the casting.

Look at the handle at the rim of the spider. I see 3 pin like indents for Pins?

Your thoughts are welcome.

Spider
Spider Cast Iron ca. 1840 - 1860 by Jeffrey R., on Flickr

Clean lines at the rim & handle
Spider Cast Iron ca. 1840 - 1860 by Jeffrey R., on Flickr

Rim at Handle
Spider Cast Iron ca. 1840 - 1860 by Jeffrey R., on Flickr

Bottom of Handle
Spider Cast Iron ca. 1840 - 1860 by Jeffrey R., on Flickr

 

[Doug D.]

I would think if an artifact of repair, there would also be an artifact of the damage as well.

 

[Jeffrey R.]

I would think if an artifact of repair, there would also be an artifact of the damage as well.

100% Agree. I have posted about ghost marks of repairs and of damaged pieces being used as the pattern for a mold. Two things I do not see here

So why the 3 pin holes?

Well, I am going out on a limb here since a lot of this thinking is pure speculation.

Could this be some molders way of taking a footed bowl and attaching a handle to the edge and using it for a pattern for the mold for a spider?

My thoughts are the 3 pin holes are solid cast iron, no pin or bolts / screws. Also looking at the last photo showing the underside of the handle, the texture of the metal next to the bowl looks as if the molder tried to smith the sand in the mold to make it smoother where they meet. You can see lines going left to right.

Page 136 in the Gray Book, could be a twin...

 

[Doug D.]

More likely everything observed is in the pattern, not assembled or finessed at mold-making time. The holes for the pins/dowels were probably leveled flush with filler material, but eroded with pattern usage, as we see with ghost marks.

 

[Jeffrey R.]

Well, I am the new owner of another piece of iron, dam that iron addiction has a hold on me.

17 degrees out an the eTank is going strong.

More info soon, not so much my speculation but more expert consultation with an expert on Holloware.

 

[Jeffrey R.]

Just for the record Doug's post #4 is 100% spot on. But I have a problem, I like to dissect the issue at hand, speculation will get us only so far so and still leave me with questions. So much is lost to history and we will never know what happened real time with a piece, so we reach out to someone who has a lot of knowledge on these pieces, as we do here on the forum. I reached out to John Tyler Author of the Gray Book, for his thoughts.

One of the most expensive steps in the casting process is the making of the pattern. A pattern maker was probably the highest paid person in the making of a piece. Keeping in mind that there were low budget and high budget foundries Low budget foundries would copy another's piece where's the high budget foundries made there own piece. Maybe in the realm of, repair a damaged pattern or make a new one.

speculating that the handle was broken of damaged. A repair was made by inserting screws, pins, or dowels from the bowl rim into the handle as seen in the photos. The holes for the screws, pins, or dowels, as well any other damaged parts were mast likely leveled flush with wax or another filler material, but eroded with pattern usage. If you look at the bottom of the handle, you can see tooling marks where they filed and shaped the filler.

So all this leads me to one more question. At what point if ever did they just take a nice cast piece and use it for a new pattern. Keeping in mind that the newer cast pattern would be smaller. I am sure this might have happened in some foundries. A few years ago here on the forum I posted about 2 of the same early muffin pans, one being smaller that the other.

Here are a few photos of the piece cleaned only, fresh out of the eTank yesterday morning.

Spider Cast Iron ca. 1840 - 1860 by Jeffrey R., on Flickr

Bowl Rim with 3 holes
Spider Cast Iron ca. 1840 - 1860 by Jeffrey R., on Flickr

Handle underside
Spider Cast Iron ca. 1840 - 1860 by Jeffrey R., on Flickr



Curved legs
Spider Cast Iron ca. 1840 - 1860 by Jeffrey R., on Flickr

Enjoy.