Estate Sale Finds-Old BSR Red Mountain & Blacklock

Chicken fryers which otherwise look like BSR except for the grooved handle are often seen on enameled pieces apparently coated and marketed by a couple of St. Louis area firms.

On the other pan, there has never been any indication that Blacklock skillets were bottom gated. Hard to say if this is a recast of an actual Blacklock or not.
 
Even if it was without the gate, I would still qualify it as a possible Blacklock without certainty. The CF is a concern. I have a possible buyer for it but don't want to advertise it as something that it's not. Would the St Louis firms have used the same markings as BSR? 8BX on lid and 8? on bottom of skillet?

Doug, If you had these 2 pieces, and you were going to list them on ebay, as I will, how would you title each listing? Advice greatly appreciated!
 
There has been a propensity in recent years to dub every unmarked skillet with outside heat ring and raised molder's mark a "possible Blacklock". This speculation is fueled by a photo in the Red Book with the author's conjecture that the unmarked skillet which has some characteristics in common with Lodge's (and any number of other foundries) may be a Blacklock. The old Blacklock catalogs only have hand drawn illustrations, and if we go by them, Blacklock skillets would have protruding, small radius pour spouts and upswept handles with grooved tops. If that's true, and those are not just stock illustrations, 99 of every 100 skillets being called a possible Blacklock are not even close. One collector has gone as far as to try to codify several dozen unmarked skillets he owns (none of which are bottom gated) with similar Lodge-like characteristics into a series, each with multiple variations, of what he calls Blacklock/Lodge. Although ambitious and well-intended, I think it only muddies the waters further. I think that until we have a verifiable photo dated 1910 or before of C.H. Blacklock, Henry Blacklock, or Joseph Lodge holding up two skillets and showing one's top and the other's bottom, or we find a marked Blacklock skillet, we cannot begin to know with any degree of certainty just what Blacklock skillets may have looked like.

If I had this pan and were to sell it, I wouldn't use the word Blacklock. I think if you do so on eBay, you'll be getting a slew of messages to the contrary, based on the gate mark. Of course, if a prospective buyer wants to think it is Blacklock, and bases it value on that supposition, that would be their prerogative.

On the other pan, I would not have a problem noting the reasonably obvious BSR connection. I haven't seen the underside of the lid, but assume it has the basting element dimples also consistent with BSR. Enameled pieces have been seen with the Century markings as well, so someone, either the St. Louis firms or BSR themselves were apparently involved in their production in some way. And variations in BSR patterns are not unknown, but this groove is typically seen confined to the enameled pieces. Although not all enameled pans that appear to be BSR, including some chicken fryers, have the groove.
 
Thank you Doug. Before you wrote this I had a chance to look up Blacklock threads from the past on this forum and noted how often you've addressed this topic and so my thanks for your effort. You said it well and I feel much better informed as a result and I'm glad I asked. I will avoid using Blacklock when listing it. Concerning the BSR. The underside of the lid has the random basting dimples like a Red Mountain lid. Should I avoid using the "Red Mountain" in the listing to save potential confusion over the handle? I would think that identifying it as a Red Mountain with a handle variation would be acceptable.

David
 
I would simply state what you know: It has all the appearance of a regular BSR Red Mountain chicken fryer but for the grooved handle which is commonly seen on enameled versions of the pan. There's no reason to think or not say the lid is not BSR Red Mountain.
 
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