Cast Iron Pan Identification Help

Ken Knight

New member
Hi, wondering if any here can help identify this unmarked pan. Solid inset heat ring, a number 9 marking at 6 o'clock with a couple of dots above and a couple of dots inside the number. Looks like a crested style handle in use in the early 1900's. Number font looks similar to a #9 Victor that appears in the Economy section of CIC. Thanks.

pan_zpszxeafwvm.jpg
 

Ken Knight

New member
Thanks D Madden, when I get this out of the caustic bath I like to compare skillet measurements and weight with you.

Found this study about Erie skillets which explains some of the features I'm seeing on this one such as handle rib length, handle attachment pad and rim lip reinforcement and wondering if any know of a similar study of Victor skillet features.

http://www.wag-society.org/guest/ERIESkilletArticle.pdf
 

Doug D.

Site Admin
Staff member
If it's an Erie or a Victor, it will be so- marked. There are some unmarked Griswolds made from Victor patterns that only have a pattern number.
 

Ken Knight

New member
Thanks Doug I'm only able to see the number 9 and dots at 6 o'clock so far. Wondering if Griswold may have produced an unmarked series at that time for export to other countries such as Canada being that their factory was located about 15 miles from that border.
 
Last edited:

D_Madden

Member
I was also wondering about the timeframe of the 'not fully marked' victors... I have two now that just have the victor name at the top at 12 oclock and the size at the bottom at 6 oclock and a pattern number. But this #9 has a mix of characteristics from the ERIE table in your pdf... obviously inset heat ring, but mine has a distinct pad and medium rib... which seems like it correlates to a mix of 3rd and 4th series erie attributes.
 

Ken Knight

New member
Noticed that your skillet also has the distinct reinforced lip which according to the ERIE table was out of use by about 1905.
 

Doug D.

Site Admin
Staff member
I wouldn't try to correlate Victors to Eries that closely. The Victors with outside heat rings just the arc logo, p/n and size number pre-date the inset heat ring and more marked and fully marked versions. The Victor design changes appear to lag behind the Erie substantially, with Victors being made well into the 30s.
 

D_Madden

Member
Thanks for the clarification, Doug.

I found this in an old WAGS thread about Victors.

VICTOR- with outside HR (w/o P/N) c1886-c1892 #7,#8,#9
VICTOR- with outside HR (with P/N) c1892-c1905 #7,#8,#9
VICTOR- with inset HR (no additional markings) c1905-c1909 #7,#8,#9
VICTOR- with inset HR- marked CAST IRON SKILLET c1910's-c1920's #7,#8,#9
VICTOR- with inset HR- Fully Marked (3 lines) c1920's-c1930's #5,#6,#7,#8,#9

I'm assuming line 3 there is inset heat ring (with P/N).

and Griswold ceased production of victor's in the 30's. So every victor should have a heat ring and the general rule would be that less markings are older than more markings?
 

Doug D.

Site Admin
Staff member
Yes, the inset HR all have p/ns. Victor smooth bottoms do not exist AFAIK (never say never), but their Wagner counterpart Nationals do.
 

Ken Knight

New member
cp2_zpsx8qnw5uw.jpg


cp1_zpsi8eyrfze.jpg


cp3_zpsguszmluf.jpg


Rim diameter is 10 3/4 inches, base diameter is 9 1/2 inches, height is 1 7/8 inches.
Still need some work before seasoning for use.
 
Last edited:

Doug D.

Site Admin
Staff member
The given depth of a Victor #9 in a catalog from what would have been the inset HR period is 1-7/8" with top OD 11" and bottom 9-1/8". For a recast using an actual Victor #9 as basis for a pattern, one would expect some shrinkage relative to a genuine Victor. At 1/8" of shrink per foot, that would make the recast top/bottom a bit under those dims and the height difference so negligible as to likely be unnoticeable. Assuming, of course, the catalog dims are exact, not nominal. Is there any evidence of buttering over a TM or a ghost of one at 12 o'clock?
 

Ken Knight

New member
Doug, no evidence of markings other than the 9 and dots in the number area and no ghost marks or disturbance of metal surface at 12 o'clock, there is another similar sized dot on the left of the handle bottom. Weight of the pan is 2.09 kgs or 4.6 lbs and stone grinding of the cooking surface and spouts was well done.
 
Last edited:

Doug D.

Site Admin
Staff member
It looks enough like and is close enough in dimensions, after considering shrink, to make me think it's a reasonably competent (read: not back yard) casting by a small foundry, using a Victor to make a pattern. A major producer of the time would likely not have let a piece with those bubbles on the underside of the handle rim pass. That anomaly in the heat ring might be the gating. A method seen employed to bottom gate without leaving a big gate scar tucks it alongside the HR.
 

RobM

Member
Quite a few of these have shown up in Canada - sizes 8 and 9. None in the US so far. The dots around the number never seem to be in the same place.All have the same style. To date, unknown manufacturer.
 

RobM

Member
In the wee 1900's, there were some 300 active stove foundries in Canada. Heck knows how many of them made hollow ware - and that's not including the history back to the mid 1700s...
 
Top